Multimedia HI-FI SHOW Ljubljana 2009

[drago67]

vsak zase najbrž ve kak zvok mu paše.meni je zvok martin loganov z tisto mašinerijo nedvomno najbolj" sedel" tam na showu.

[gorko1]

[gorko1]

[ajka]

LP
Vse preveč "audiofili" slišijo ali hočejo slišati samo eno od "vrlin" sistema ali "zvočnika" ...
Če ostanemo pri "osnovni" komponenti "zvočniku",ki je bistvo zasnove vsakega sistema ... Popolnega zvočnika NI !!!!
Potem je samo od nas odvisno kaj želimo od njega ...Najprej se moramo vprašat ali hočemo zvočnik ,ki igra čimbolj naravno z vsemi prvinami od timbra do dinamike ali pa želimo zvočnik,ki je prijeten za uho in ga ne bomo terali v skrajne gasnosti in dinamiko ... V tem kontekstu se je potrebno lotit tudi obratne situacije,kritike zvočnika...
Zvočniki so si tako različni,da je nemogoče vse metat v isti koš...
Nemogoča je primerjava monitorja in velikega samostoječega ali panela ali troblje...
Vsak ima svoje slabe in dobre lastnosti ... Potem je še tukaj tip delovanja itd... ...
Če govorimo npr. o elektrostatih sploh ni veliki problem "zvok" plastične vrečke...Elektrostat je zelo dober v timbru veliko boljši od ostalih ...
Ima pa še vedno druge slabosti ...Najslabši je še vedno v dinamiki in glasnosti...Velikega orkestra še vedno ne moreš poslušat v neki približno naravni glasnosti ...Tudi skrajno tihe pasaže mu ne ležijo...Težko jih poganjaš z ojačevalci ultimatine kvalitete majhnih moči ... Ima slabšo 3D sliko kot npr...Magneplanar ali dober dinamičen zvočnik(Slika je bolj okrogla in hitro se izgubi če nisi v fokusu)...Pa še "stara" se bolj kot dinamičen zvočnik(Po cca 10 letih je že potreben servis)... Če pa nisi pristaš glasnega poslušanja in imaš dober ojačevalec pa je tak zvočnik zelo dobra izbira...
Če govorimo o "monitorju" je ta skoraj po pravilu najbolj natančen in zelo dober v timbru ter 3D sliki ...vendar je ta 3D slika samo natančna v fokusu in pozicijoniranju, je pa pretanka neslojevita in premalo gosta pri nekaterih tudi premalo visoka ... Zaradi majhnega števila enot ne zmore glasnega in dinamičbega poslušanja ... Je pa ponavadi tudi zelo požrešen in ojačevalci velikokrat presegajo velikost zvočnika ...
Troblja nikoli ne bo "zvočnik za naravnim" zvokom,ker mu enostavno fizika ne dovoljuje ... Troblje ni moč izračunat in narest,da ne bi neke frekvence bolj ojačala kot druge ali imela enakomerna popačenja skozi celotno krivuljo troblje ... Ja pač samo približek !!!! ... Se pa noben zvočnik ne more kosati z njegovo dinamiko in naravno glasnostjo poslušanja ...
Keramični dinamični(in vse vrste drage sintetike) in vse vrste ribbona so najbolj natančni zvočniki ... Popačenja so minimalna ampak so slabši v izkoristku,glasnosti in dinamiki...Zato velikokrat vidimo velike omarice z velikim številom pogonskih enot a vse skupaj igra zelo tanko in premalo dinamično...Ribboni so natančni a ne zmorejo velikih glasnosti,zato srečamo v dobrih izvedbah večje število pogonskih enot,kjer delajo z manjšo močjo a vseno poženejo zadosti zraka,kar pa seveda podraži zadevo...
Zato se zadnje čase iščejo materiali,ki so nekako seštevek dobrih lastnosti sintetike in naravnih materialov,katerih recepte proizvajalci skrbno čuvajo ...
Potem pa imamo še "butične" verzije,ki so samosvoje in zvočno posebne nekatere bolj posrečene nekatere manj,ker se nekateri kvarijo in je servis zelo zahtevaen(Plazma visokotonci-Accapela,MBL;GERMAN PHYSIKS itd...)
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Če povzamemo je res sodoben zvočnik v veliki večini manj dinamičen od starodobnega,je pa veliko bolj natančen v vseh pogledih !!!
Neizkušeni audiofili govorijo o "muzikaličnosti in toplini starih" konceptov ... To je v veliki večini lažna "toplina",ki vsebuje netransparenco,popačenja in izgubo_pomankanje informacij !!!
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[etapdavid]

Osebno za mene na sejmu letos ni bilo nič izjemnega, pa tudi tega nisem pričakoval. Sejem je zame bolj srečanje, vzpostavljanje novih stikov, ....

Na sejmu sem srečal zanimivo osebnost, gospoda Aco Razbornika (Studio Tivoli). Njegove splošne pripombe glede zvoka na sejmu so:
- poudarjenje visokih frekvenc,
- leseni inštrumenti zveneijo premalo leseno,
- korekten bas lahko odigra samo velik zvočnik,
- nekateri sistemi zvenijo, kot bi imeli vlkjučen loudnes.

Z njegovimi ugotovitvami se močno strinam!

[hi_musica]

[nomad]

[nomad]

[nomad]

[ajka]

[nomad]

[Zoran]

Nomad, temu kar si v zadnjem postu napisal bi jaz še pritaknil naslednji citat (http://www.linkwitzlab.com), povzet v celoti:

My observations and promise:
It is possible to reproduce a stereo recording in an ordinary living room such that listeners have the illusion that the two loudspeakers have disappeared. When they close their eyes, they can easily imagine to be present at the recording space, as they listen to the phantom audio scene in front of them.

The vast majority of loudspeakers that have been sold - the typical box speakers - can only produce this effect to a limited degree because of a fundamental limitation: they radiate sound into the room with different intensity at different frequencies and angles, though they measure flat on axis. Consequently the many reflections from room surfaces are sonically colored in a way that is characteristic for box loudspeakers. We always recognize the sound as coming from a box rather than being live. It is the generic loudspeaker sound.

Loudspeakers with frequency independent, constant directionality such as omni, dipole or cardioid loudspeakers, cause reflections in a room that are essentially delayed replicas of the direct sound and which are therefore less colored. Your ear/brain perceptual apparatus does not get confused by sound replicas. Instead it compares them to the familiar acoustic behavior of your room and readily blankets the redundant information and thereby the room. This automatic brain response is related to the Precedence Effect in psychoacoustics and is essential for creating the illusion of "being there" by withdrawing attention from the living room acoustics.

It has been a fascinating journey for me to come to this understanding. Early on, electrostatic panel loudspeakers had intrigued me, because they seemed to do something fundamentally right when properly set up, and this despite their obvious limitations. I can see in hindsight that a few loudspeaker designers had pointed to the benefits of omni-directional loudspeakers. The ORION+ has demonstrated to me what more is possible in 2-channel sound reproduction, provided that the recording contains natural spatial cues and is not merely an artificial sound mix.

Accurate sound reproduction is in reach for you too. Surprise yourself with the believability of the illusion when two loudspeakers properly stimulate your room, ear and brain. You find yourself lost in music and space.

Siegfried Linkwitz, August 2009

LP, Zoran

[Zoran]

... in še tole:

The best rooms ...
The best rooms are at least 15 feet wide, 20 feet long and have a ceiling height of 8 feet or more. This allows the two loudspeakers of a stereo system to be placed symmetrically and with their tweeters at least 3 feet from side and rear walls. With the loudspeaker tweeters 8 feet apart the sweet spot is located on the room symmetry line and at 8 feet from left and right loudspeakers. This leaves more than 9 feet behind the listeners for the sound to travel before it is reflected back. It is very important for balanced phantom image creation that the immediate vicinity around the two loudspeakers is symmetrical.

Rooms can, of course, be much larger than 15 x 20 x 8 feet and with the loudspeakers much further than 3 feet from the walls, but the optimum listening distance for phantom imaging remains equal to the loudspeaker left-right separation or up to 1.5 times that value.

Room construction can vary widely, which tends to affect low frequency reproduction and sound transmission to and from the neighbors. You take what you get and try to correct one or two frequencies if necessary. But, if the room is pleasing to live in, to have a conversation or to relax, is neither a dungeon nor a stuffed pillow, then it is also suited for accurate sound playback. The room should be furnished, have irregular hard surfaces, books and shelves for sound diffusion, rugs, pillows and soft surfaces for sound absorption at higher frequencies. Just keep it lively. The best loudspeakers will make you forget the room, if the room talks back from all directions in the same familiar voice.

Actually, the loudspeaker is the problem

The room is usually considered to be the problem when a loudspeaker does not sound right. Actually, the loudspeaker is the problem, because it illuminates the room unevenly with sound at different frequencies. The room merely talks back and the listener's brain cannot withdraw attention from it. Room correction will make the loudspeaker sound different but it cannot fix its off-axis frequency response, which is heard via the room.

No one can tell you the right room proportions, though many have and are trying. Listening rooms in the home are much more difficult to understand and describe than concert halls, because their acoustic size varies from being small compared to a 56 foot wavelength at 20 Hz, to being very large at 10 kHz with 1.3 inch wavelength. Concert halls are acoustically small even at the lowest frequencies and thus easier to analyze and they have been studied extensively. Even so, concert hall design is still a blend of art and science. For your listening/living room design and layout follow the simple guidelines above and forget what you read about 1/3rd rules, costly room treatment products, magic wood blocks, etc. Use appropriate loudspeakers.

SL - October 2009

LP, Zoran

[nomad]

Zoran, se popolnoma strinjam s citiranim tekstom.
Mislim da zadane problem v bistvu.
Tale g. Linkwitz točno ve kaj govori.

Mimogrede, najboljši akustični inženirji za domače potrebe so naše boljše polovice. Če sobo uredijo tako, da bo prijetna za klepet s prijateljicami potem bo to kar primerna soba za poslušanje. Kvartet klepetulj je idealen akustični pripomoček za urejanje akustike.
Mi se s svojimi teorijami samo medemo. Ko pogledaš članke o akustiki, te najprej obmetavajo z raznimi formulami za izračun stoječih valov, ki naj bi jih kaj ? Odpravili ? Kako pa to narediš ? To je en kup nepotrebnega smetja.
Saj ne, da ni treba nič razmišljati o akustiki, a če mi nekdo reče da je frka, ker je v moji sobi nekje resonanca na 120 Hz, ker je to izračunal iz višine stropa, se lahko samo smejim. Mogoče je kje kaka resonanca, a jaz teh famoznih stoječih valov ne slišim. Ravno zdajle, ko to pišem mi igrajo zvočniki in ko se pomikam po sobi, ne slišim nobenih stoječih valov. Probleme z resonancmi povzročajo slabi zvočniki in ne akustika.

[Zoran]