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joztom
Pridružen/-a: Pon Jan 2013 11:07
Prispevkov: 1975
Kraj: Ljubljana
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 Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 10:39 Naslov sporočila: |
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Prav imaš, vsakomur svoje. Najbolje bi bilo naskrivaj našparati denar in kupiti ene tri bufferje, zvok prikrito poslati čez zaporedno in dobiš 3x boljši zvok, oplemeniten s plemenito plesnijo. Žal ne gre tako in elektrike si ne smemo predstavljati mehansko s prispodobami iz mizarstva, mehanike itd, kot je uporaba šmergl papirja 80, 240, 600 in 2000. V resnici je tako, da mora biti impedanca prejšnje stopnje najmanj 3x, pa tja pa do 10x nižja od naslednjega vhoda. V nasprotnem primeru nizka vsebnost toka postane predmet manipulacije RLC karakteristik povezovalnega kabla, kar se znatno vtika s svojo dolžino v reprodukcijo. Tu začnete z menjavami kablov.
U glavnem, če bi v obravnavanem Yamaha receiverju manjkal tok, bi ga pač ojačali, saj si ne bi želeli biti drugim v zobeh zaradi neznanja. |
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sullly
Pridružen/-a: Pon Avg 2021 17:26
Prispevkov: 387
Kraj: Globes
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| Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 10:55 Naslov sporočila: |
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hehe, jaz pijem kavo brez sladkorja, kaj šele drugih dodatkov.
Nekoč, ko sem bil mlad in neumen (mlad nisem več) sem vprašal poznavalca: zakaj pri kavi je vonj eno, okus drugo. Ne gre skupaj.
Pa mi je odgovoril - zato ker sladkor prekrije okus. Ljudje ga dodajajo, ker jim je preveč grenko. A tako je po naravi in zato tako vonja. Pij kavo brez sladkorja! Pa se to ne bo zgodilo - dobil boš okus isti kot je vonj.
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Lahko prenesemo:
feedback je nujno orodje za popravljanje visoke nelinearnosti in popačenj predvsem tranzistorjev. To po eni strani linearizira in odpravi popačenja, po drugi vnaša nenaravne artefakte, skratka ne zveni kot v naturi.
Tudi lampe se da zafidbekati do nezavesti, in takrat zvenijo isto kot tranzistorji - ker tranzistorski zvok je zvok feedbacka.
Sedaj, nekdo ki ni nikoli imel prilike efekte teh posegov slišati iz prve roke - vzame tako narejeno nepopačenje tranzistorjev kot defolt, kar ni res.
Poglejte kaj meni avtoriteta na audio področju: Nelson Pass
https://firstwatt.com/pdf/art_h2.pdf
...
when I first explored this with the SIT-1 amplifier at First Watt, I
had a knob on the front of the amplifier which varied the amount and phase of the 2nd
harmonic. It was easy enough to lend the amplifiers to listeners who didn't know what the
knob did and gather their comments. Roughly speaking, they tended to prefer about 1%
negative phase 2nd harmonic, so it became my standard setting for that knob.
...
_________________
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
(Eleanor Roosevelt) |
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sullly
Pridružen/-a: Pon Avg 2021 17:26
Prispevkov: 387
Kraj: Globes
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| Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 11:20 Naslov sporočila: |
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Že to, kako nastane posnetek, pogojuje vse ostalo. Če je v osnovi zvok klinično očiščen in osiromašen izzvenevanj, okužen s fidbeki itd - kaj v takem pomeni hifi?
Je pa v zgoraj podanem linku Nelsona Passa predlagano majceno vezje na osnovi JFeta, ki generira drugo harmonsko komponento popačenja in ji tudi lahko spreminjaš fazo in količino.
Pravi Pass, da če imaš single ended ojačevalec, lahko s sukanjem faze in doziranjem izničiš drugo harmonsko popačenje in sliši kako tak ojačevalec zveni brez tega popačenja.
Evo, @joztom, za DIY krasna prilika. Pa še ni tube, je tranzistor.
_________________
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
(Eleanor Roosevelt) |
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twom
Pridružen/-a: Sob Feb 2009 21:47
Prispevkov: 301
Kraj: Ljubljana
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| Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 12:57 Naslov sporočila: |
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| anzec je napisal/a: | | Zanimivo je to, da vecina pivcev kave sploh ne bi marala, ce bi bila natur, katera ima okus podoben caju. Prazenost pa da nam znan okus, ki v osnovi nima veze s kavo. |
Neumna pripomba. Kot bi primerjal grozdje, mošt, vino… |
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anzec
Pridružen/-a: Ned Jul 2014 19:10
Prispevkov: 251
Kraj: Ljubljana
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| Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 14:05 Naslov sporočila: |
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| twom je napisal/a: | | anzec je napisal/a: | | Zanimivo je to, da vecina pivcev kave sploh ne bi marala, ce bi bila natur, katera ima okus podoben caju. Prazenost pa da nam znan okus, ki v osnovi nima veze s kavo. |
Neumna pripomba. Kot bi primerjal grozdje, mošt, vino… |
Samo da je tvoja s cimetom pametna. 🤣🤣🤣 |
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anzec
Pridružen/-a: Ned Jul 2014 19:10
Prispevkov: 251
Kraj: Ljubljana
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| Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 14:29 Naslov sporočila: |
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| joztom je napisal/a: | Prav imaš, vsakomur svoje. Najbolje bi bilo naskrivaj našparati denar in kupiti ene tri bufferje, zvok prikrito poslati čez zaporedno in dobiš 3x boljši zvok, oplemeniten s plemenito plesnijo. Žal ne gre tako in elektrike si ne smemo predstavljati mehansko s prispodobami iz mizarstva, mehanike itd, kot je uporaba šmergl papirja 80, 240, 600 in 2000. V resnici je tako, da mora biti impedanca prejšnje stopnje najmanj 3x, pa tja pa do 10x nižja od naslednjega vhoda. V nasprotnem primeru nizka vsebnost toka postane predmet manipulacije RLC karakteristik povezovalnega kabla, kar se znatno vtika s svojo dolžino v reprodukcijo. Tu začnete z menjavami kablov.
U glavnem, če bi v obravnavanem Yamaha receiverju manjkal tok, bi ga pač ojačali, saj si ne bi želeli biti drugim v zobeh zaradi neznanja. |
Se popolnoma strinjam, da moramo strmeti k cim manjsem faznem zamiku, ampak v praksi je to nemogoce doseci, zato menim da lahko kaksen bufer to fazo zamakne v pravo smer ali pa deluje kot eq, pa v doticni sobi bolje zveni. Enkrat sem si lastil NAIM verigo, ampak enostavno mi je bilo mnogo bolje s predojacevalcem na lampe vmes. Pa bi pricakoval da od neke znane firme zadeva spila. Ampak ni odvisno vse od ojacevalca ampak tudi od bremena, ki pa je vse prej kot pa linearen upor.
Ena lampa v predojacrvalnem delu je vedno za probat.
Ne trdim da bo bolje. |
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benma
Pridružen/-a: Ned Jan 2011 17:12
Prispevkov: 1631
Kraj: Kamnica
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| Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 14:46 Naslov sporočila: |
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Nisem ekspert za lampe in bufferje. Na netu sem videl video firme PS audio, v katerem razložijo, da je glavna naloga bufferja, da ojača tok (ampere), sam audio signal (volte) pa pusti pri miru. Največkrat se ga baje uporabi v primerih, ko impedanci obeh enot, ki ju buffer povezuje, nista ustrezni.
Zato mi je to vaše dopisovanje nekoliko nerazumljivo...
_________________
"Whenever we find connoisseurship operating within science or technology we may assume it persists only because it has not been possible to replace it by a measurable grading." Michael Polanyi |
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anzec
Pridružen/-a: Ned Jul 2014 19:10
Prispevkov: 251
Kraj: Ljubljana
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| Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 15:17 Naslov sporočila: |
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| benma je napisal/a: | Nisem ekspert za lampe in bufferje. Na netu sem videl video firme PS audio, v katerem razložijo, da je glavna naloga bufferja, da ojača tok (ampere, volte pa pusti pri miru) in da se ga največkrat uporabi v primerih, ko impedanci obeh enot, ki ju buffer povezuje, nista ustrezni.
Zato mi je to vaše dopisovanje nekoliko nerazumljivo... |
Sigurno je to glavna naloga buferja. Tako kot je tudi joztom rekel, verjetno pri jamahi niso na to impedancno ujemanje pozabili. Se strinjam torej da je verjetnost za uspeh manjsa. Sem tudi pristas da manj je bolje, ampak kdaj je take zadeve enostavno treba probat v svojem sistemu.
Smo pa itak zasli vsi skupaj (zacensi z mano) saj je bilo vprasanje kako to vkljuciiti v njegov sistem in ne kaksni bodo rezultati. 🙄 |
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ck
Pridružen/-a: Pon Feb 2009 19:27
Prispevkov: 1681
Kraj: kamnik
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| Objavljeno: Tor Nov 01, 2022 18:30 Naslov sporočila: |
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| LightBit je napisal/a: | | To je pa tak zelo neuporabno definiran opis. |
To je edini resničen opis. Če bi bilo na tem kaj več, potem ne poznam audiofila, ki si ga nebi kupil, saj cena ni nevem kakšna.
_________________
LP |
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peter1995
Pridružen/-a: Sre Nov 2022 9:22
Prispevkov: 6
Kraj: california
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| Nazaj na vrh |
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peter1995
Pridružen/-a: Sre Nov 2022 9:22
Prispevkov: 6
Kraj: california
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| Nazaj na vrh |
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peter1995
Pridružen/-a: Sre Nov 2022 9:22
Prispevkov: 6
Kraj: california
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| Objavljeno: Sre Nov 02, 2022 09:41 Naslov sporočila: poreuyr |
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peter1995
Pridružen/-a: Sre Nov 2022 9:22
Prispevkov: 6
Kraj: california
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sullly
Pridružen/-a: Pon Avg 2021 17:26
Prispevkov: 387
Kraj: Globes
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| Objavljeno: Sre Nov 02, 2022 09:56 Naslov sporočila: |
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Ta kos opreme samo MusicalFidelity (po moje neupravičeno) poimenuje buffer, zato da prikrije dejansko vlogo vpliva na zvok. Morda pa tudi zato, ker se raja hitro zmede in pojasnjevanje vloge strukture popačenja pač ni za povprečnega kupca, kot je vidno tudi tu na forumu.
ReNew svoj izdelek kliče TubeH2Harmonizer, Nelson Pass pa H2 2nd harmonic generator.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Mimogrede: če ste pozorno brali je Pass posojal svoj prototip FirstWatt ojačevalce z gumbom za regulacijo količine in faze popačenja. Ni povedal za kaj gre in večina avdiofilov je pristala na 1% 2.harmonske v kontrafazi. - To je potem ostalo v njegovih serijsko narejenih ojačevalcih kot defolt.
...when I first explored this with the SIT-1 amplifier at First Watt, I
had a knob on the front of the amplifier which varied the amount and phase of the 2nd
harmonic. It was easy enough to lend the amplifiers to listeners who didn't know what the
knob did and gather their comments. Roughly speaking, they tended to prefer about 1%
negative phase 2nd harmonic, so it became my standard setting...
---
Faza - gre za fazo popačenja - kako je zamaknjeno/obrnjeno valovanje druge harmonske komponente - vs fazi signala.
Tudi učinki premikanja faze popačenja so lepo razloženi v tukaj (ponovno) podanem linku:
http://nixiekits.eu/product.php?key=renew
The ReNew tube harmonizer generates "pleasing" 2nd harmonic distortion, which phase can continuously adjusted from negative to positive and thus on the one hand "detaches" the sound stage from the speakers; the stage becomes wider and deeper and also the room reverb appears more. On the other hand, you can also make the sound more direct and bring the band, orchestra or even a speaker closer to you. And that without any tonal changes!
Kako lahko ostaneš hladen ob teh trditvah? - Da lahko spreminjaš velikost na stereo sliko/ stage, reverb, da se zvok odlepi od zvočnikov ... razen če ne razumeš kaj piše
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Nič ni krivovernega uporabiti tak generator, sploh v entry level hifijih. Pa še spoznava se mehanizme kaj in kako vpliva na zvok. Izkušen avdiofil vse to ve in upošteva pri sestavi bolje zvenečih hifijev. Klasična rešitev (tudi moja) je, uporaba (primernega) lampaškega predojačevalca+solid state končna stopnja. Efekt je točno ta kot pri H2 generatorjih - ogromna prostorna stereo slika z veliko ambience, reverba in emocij. Človek avdiofil se upravičeno vpraša a ni defolt tranzistor tisti problem, ki osiromaši zvok in je potem potrebno dodati tak generator.
Naš Bojan je lepo v uvodnem postu vprašal ali bi lahko na njegov 'all in one' aparat dodal nekaj za izboljšanje zvoka - in (po mojem) je bolj kot fiksno delujoč MusicalFidelity za kaj takega primeren ReNew, ker se lahko po meri dozira tako količina kot faza. Po moje to vprašanje se ni nanašalo samo na kako ampak tudi na naša mnenja - kaj bi bilo primerno za kaj takega.
_________________
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
(Eleanor Roosevelt) |
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lix
Pridružen/-a: Ned Jan 2016 3:17
Prispevkov: 541
Kraj: Med Koprom in Trstom
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Ne, ne moreš dodajati novih tem v tem forumu
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