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Pridruen/-a: Ned Jul 2009 16:17 Prispevkov: 467 Kraj: LJ
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Objavljeno: Tor Maj 15, 2012 13:04 Naslov sporočila: "Trend vinilk povzroĆØa razdor" |
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Prispevek z malo drugaĆØnega zornega kota:
Citiram: | There is a truth, universally held among classical musicians, that old recordings are better than new. The absurdity of this proposition is obvious. It is the same as arguing that athletes and equipment in the 1948 London Olympics were superior to those of 2012. But where sport can prick pretension with statistics, music is a matter of faith ā and faith, as Richard Dawkins refuses to accept, flourishes where reason ends.
In music, the flat-earthers are winning the argument. Listen carefully, the grinding noise you hear behind this column is the sound of the musical clock being turned back. Here's the latest news: the classical LP has resumed production.
Two influential conductors, Paavo JƤrvi and Gustavo Dudamel, have just made vinyl-only releases. The pianist Valentina Lisitsaā YouTube's most-watched classical artist ā has a Liszt album coming out in analogue. A New York string quartet, Brooklyn Rider, issued their debut album on LP because, they say, "Vinyl creates a bridge to a past we deeply admire." Amazon has opened a Vinyl Store. And the fastest-growing area of US music sales, up 39.3 per cent, is, you guessed, the notoriously scratchy, inaccurate, superannuated, inconvenient, short-lasting, long-playing 33 rpm record.
After a quarter of a century of obsolescence, the LP is making a comeback worthy of any religious resurrection. How it has risen from charity shop basement to wealthy living room is a parable for our times, a classic example of popular resistance to the overwhelming weight of scientific evidence and market forces. This is a turnaround equivalent to the vindication of homeopathy, the revival of newsprint and the return of the French monarchy, a romantic defiance of intellect and reality.
The Old Believers give two reasons for revering LPs. The first, misty-eyed, proclaims that there were giants in past times who were closer than we are to the source of creation and thus greater than we can ever hope to be. There is no comeback to this claim. I have tried in vain to demonstrate how Riccardo Chailly's 2011 Decca set of the Beethoven symphonies is better played, in immaculate sound and with a clearer concept of structure than Toscanini's boxy platters on RCA Red Seal, but the OBs just plug their ears and go la-la-la.
The second credo, more mystical still, maintains that recording sound on to a physical surface is a healthy, organic process, whereas its reduction to binary digits somehow deprives the music of its "humanity". Harking back to my first dose of digital 30 years ago at Decca's West Hampstead studios, I can summon a grain of sympathy for that position. Early digital was not easy on the ears. The technology was so clinical that microphone placement needed to be frugal and precise. It rarely was. I recall the noise of a carpentry workshop in a digital Tchaikovsky overture. Upon investigation it turned out to be one mike too close to the cello bridges, ruining a good record.
Ten years after those first demonstrations, I watched Nigel Kennedy record the Beethoven concerto in a small town in Germany with an EMI team who were so scornful of his Luddite adherence to analogue tape that they set up a parallel digital feed and challenged me blindfold to tell them apart. I couldn't. Such was the advance of digital ingenuity that the boffins had managed to produce a sound that had the presence (or warmth) of analogue without the disfiguring snap, crackle and pop that condemned the late LP to the knacker's yard.
Today, a teenager with a kit from Amazon can record an orchestral image cleaner than the most sterile dreams of Herbert von Karajan, a maestro who embraced digital ("all else is gaslight," he declared) in his quest for an inhuman degree of sound purity. Karajan, paradoxically, is adored by self-styled audiophiles who crave the "human" sound of needle on surface. Go figure. There is no arguing with Old Believers. "Do I contradict myself?" sang Walt Whitman. "Very well then, I contradict myself."
It is into this logical vacuum that the LP has made its improbable return. Here's why. Music in 2012 is increasingly received by download. Soon, we are told, the physical object will become unnecessary. Many of us already carry what we call "my music" on portable telephones and personal devices. "She shall have music wherever she goes" ā the old nursery rhyme was prophetic.
But technology has not kept pace with portability. The sound on iTunes Plus, Apple's premium service, is compressed to 256 kilobits per second (kbps), inadequate for complex, subtle, classical music. On specialist download sites it rises to 320kbps. That is still inferior to CD sound. So disgruntlement grows with download culture.
The formidable Lisitsa, faster with a soundbite than Obama at an oil slick, declares: "Digital did to music what Photoshop did to photography." She has a point, but you see where this is leading: to a perception that new technology is the enemy of musical truth.
The danger here is that the classical community, itself a tiny fragment of the global music market, will split into camps of mutual incomprehension. The hungriest consumers for classical music are now in East Asia, chiefly Korea and China, where most purchases are by download. While a growing minority of Westerners wistfully embrace the dead LP, Asian ears are being iTuned to an opacity of sound that music professionals consider meagre, offensive and unacceptable.
At this point, the vinyl revival ceases to be a trivial matter. It amounts to a Tower of Babel moment when one half of the world can no longer understand the other and music cannot bridge the gap. It is all very well for aesthetes with high-end music systems to welcome the return of flat-pack LPs, but their satisfaction distracts from the chief priority.
The winner of the 2012 orchestral Grammy was a download-only Los Angeles concert of Brahms's Fourth. It sounded terrible. Unless Apple and its rivals can be pressured to produce a credible sonic image of rich orchestral sound, our ears will be progressively impoverished and the next generation will be raised in ignorance of what real music might be. At that point, even a rational column like this might revert to 33 revolutions per minute. |
Seveda je Michael Fremer takoj podal odgovor v enem izmed komentarjev:
Citiram: | What a lame, condescending storyābut amusing for its arrogance. I'll tell you what's "new": fast food. Burgers and fries. Fantastic! I'll tell you what's old: gourmet dining. So are people stupid enough to think that old gourmet dining beats burgers and fries? Some "nostalgia freaks" probably. Folks who think "new equals better" are as ridiculous as people who think "old equals better." Seriously though, you have made factual errors here. The Jarvi Beethoven symphony box to which I think you were referring, is not "vinyl only." It was issued first on SACD and then AT THE BEHEST OF MEMBERS OF THE STRING SECTION, an analog mix was prepared for the LP set. So look, if you are so incredibly ARROGANT as to suggest that the members of the orchestra are "flat earthers" who don't know what their music is supposed to sound like, well then knock yourself out! But you're making a pompous ass of yourself. I've met a number of well known, highly accomplished classical musicians (and a few big name conductors) who are "vinyl people." They LIKE the sound. They prefer it. They think if done correctly it sounds more like live music. They are not so foolish as to think any recording sounds like live music, but they're convinced vinyl properly produced and reproduced comes closer to "live". And that also goes for many well known recording engineers who are vinyl fanatics and just are repelled by the sound of CDs as am Iāand they surely know what their masters sound like. I heard my first CD at an AES in Los Angeles, prepared, based on what I'd read, to LOVE IT. But it sounded horrible. Flat, glazed, harmonically starved, edgy, bright and a-musical. It's gotten better (despite claims of perfection for it then and now), but high resolution digital sounds much better (and the same "perfection" toadies now claim high resolution is a "scam". What a joke. However, I also know many others who do prefer CDs because of their pitch perfection. Fine. At Avery Fisher Hall two years ago I was introduced by a friend to Max Wilcox, Arthur Rubinstein's old producer at RCA. Rather than simply introducing me by name, my friend said "Max, I want you to meet a vinyl guy." Well!!!!!!! You'd think he'd introduced me as Pol Pot. Wilcox went on an anti-vinyl tirade aimed at me personally that by comparison makes your offensive scolding sound meek and mild-mannered. I just stood there and listened bemused and when Max had finished I told him what I'm about to tell you: I find it curious that most vinyl fans I know really don't care that you and others like you love your CDs and the sound that we think is sterile, flat, dimensionless and a-musical. That's what makes the world go 'round. Whatever you like! Knock yourself out. "Live and let live." But you guys get angry, go on tirades and angry scolds, publish condescending, arrogant insulting posts like the one above, or react as Wilcox did, rather than saying "whatever you like," or "whatever sounds good to you," or "whatever lets you enjoy recorded music," etc. For some reason you get REALLY UPSET that not everyone loves CD as much as you do, while LP folks really couldn't care less about your choice. And this tells me something: it tells me you're not really enjoying yourself listening to those polycarbonate biscuits as much as you claim you are, because if you really were, you wouldn't write the kind of bile filled excrement you've produced above. |
Vir: http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/4433/full
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ambasador
Pridruen/-a: Sre Feb 2011 19:52 Prispevkov: 5984 Kraj: Izola
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Objavljeno: Tor Maj 15, 2012 13:43 Naslov sporočila: |
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Še ena potrditev: tisti ko nimajo gramofona delajo zdraho. Seveda ne vsi, samo nekateri. Študiram s kako karakterno potezo je povezano. Ali tej ljudje 'patijo' (trpijo) od tega da je njihova izbira absolutno najboljŔa, pa jih moti da so LP-jevci nasmejani in zadovoljni kljub 'inferiornosti' ? Boh, kdo bi vedel.
VÅ”eĆØ mi je Fermerjeva razlaga: ko bi digitalisti res uživali, ne bi tako žolĆØno napadali.
ToĆØno vem, da je CD odliĆØna izbira ĆØe:
- ne nameravaŔ veliko potroŔiti.
- Pa ĆØe je glasba nezahtevna.
- Pa ĆØe je posluÅ”alec relativno ! nezahteven.
- Pa ĆØe nimaÅ” LP-jev.
- Pa ĆØe stalno nekam hitiÅ”.
- Pa ĆØe si redko vzameÅ” ĆØas za posluÅ”anje.
- pa ĆØe veliko ĆØasa prebijeÅ” v avtu (z glasbo)
Ko pogledam naÅ”tete razloge - pa saj noter pade 99,9% populacije. Mora biti in je prav tako. Poleg tega CD je ipak neskonĆØno boljÅ”a reĆØ od MP3.
Tudi jaz si tu pa tam zavrtim kak CD. Ker mi morda paÅ”e kaka sonata, ki je nimam na LP-ju. Ali kaj berem zraven, pa si dam za zvoĆØno kuliso da ne drajsam (pre)drage igle. Će hoĆØem uživati do daske, grem na LP.
Ma zaradi tega nisem Ŕe nobenega ugriznil, oŔpotal, ozmerjal ali zganjal kampanjo za ali proti. _________________ Carpe Diem
Nazadnje urejal/a ambasador Tor Maj 15, 2012 14:16; skupaj popravljeno 3 krat |
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Slinch
Pridruen/-a: Ned Jul 2009 16:17 Prispevkov: 467 Kraj: LJ
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Objavljeno: Tor Maj 15, 2012 14:03 Naslov sporočila: |
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ToĆØno to, zdi se mi da že zaradi samega pristopa, ki ga je avtor ĆØlanka ubral, njegove izjave težko kdorkoli jemlje resno. Sicer kar imam sam izkuÅ”enj vinil niti sluĆØajno ni format brez pomanjkljivosti, ampak argumenti, ki jih je avtor izpostavil, ne spadajo mednje. |
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ambasador
Pridruen/-a: Sre Feb 2011 19:52 Prispevkov: 5984 Kraj: Izola
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Objavljeno: Tor Maj 15, 2012 14:38 Naslov sporočila: |
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Slinch je napisal/a: | ToĆØno to, zdi se mi da že zaradi samega pristopa, ki ga je avtor ĆØlanka ubral, njegove izjave težko kdorkoli jemlje resno. Sicer kar imam sam izkuÅ”enj vinil niti sluĆØajno ni format brez pomanjkljivosti, ampak argumenti, ki jih je avtor izpostavil, ne spadajo mednje. |
Vinil je 'krgan' napak. Samo ko gledam vinilke 'en fas' na vertikalnem gramofonu se zgrozim. To ni samo da je ekscentriĆØno, prav obliko krompirja imajo nekatere. Pa zvonaste oblike, pa valovite. Obup, kaj vse so nam prodajali. Na takih LP-jih je toĆØen 'pitch' nemogoĆØe vzpostaviti na nobenem gramofonu.
180 gramske plate stanejo. Aaa, ĆØe stanejo.. So vsaj ravne. Pa ameriÅ”ke, skoraj vse kar jih imam so bistveno bolje narejene od naÅ”ih. _________________ Carpe Diem |
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Tma
Pridruen/-a: Pet Nov 2010 3:06 Prispevkov: 635 Kraj: Nova Gorica
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Objavljeno: Tor Maj 15, 2012 15:57 Naslov sporočila: |
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No tudi 180gr vinilke sem že dobil zvite. Kar imam novejÅ”ih vinilk so najboljÅ”e tiste ki so Å”tancane v Pallasu (NemĆØija).
LP |
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JAZZZ
Pridruen/-a: Sre Apr 2008 12:32 Prispevkov: 2770 Kraj: POSAVEC
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Objavljeno: Tor Maj 15, 2012 17:59 Naslov sporočila: |
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Tma je napisal/a: | No tudi 180gr vinilke sem že dobil zvite. Kar imam novejÅ”ih vinilk so najboljÅ”e tiste ki so Å”tancane v Pallasu (NemĆØija).
LP |
+1
Veliko veĆØjo pomen kot grami ima firma, ki stoji za Å”tancanjem _________________ "There are two kinds of fools. One says-this is old and therefore good. The other says-this is new and therefore better." Bob Katz |
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Slinch
Pridruen/-a: Ned Jul 2009 16:17 Prispevkov: 467 Kraj: LJ
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Objavljeno: Tor Maj 15, 2012 19:55 Naslov sporočila: |
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JAZZZ je napisal/a: |
Veliko veĆØjo pomen kot grami ima firma, ki stoji za Å”tancanjem |
To sem se tudi jaz že nauĆØil. Mene niti toliko ne motijo fiziĆØne hibe plat (rahla ukrivljenost, povrÅ”no obrezani robovi), ampak sama kvaliteta natisa. VeĆØina glasbe, ki jo kupujem na vinilu, na žalost prihaja od založb, ki vinil "paĆØ naredijo", ker ga bo nekdo kupil. Ni pa opaziti nikakrÅ”nega truda, da bi ta plata tudi spodobno zvenela. To je edini razlog, zakaj Å”e vedno ne najdem volje, da bi vložil nekoliko veĆØ denarja v analogijo. Se mi zdi rahlo nesmiselno, za tistih 5% plat v zbirki, ki celo zvenijo bolje kot povpreĆØni empetri. |
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